irish speakers

[tom]

My grandfather, Thomas Henry (Tomas O'Einri) was brought up in the Elphin/Boyle area in the 1860/70s. He was R.C. and did not know any English until he went to England in his teens. My question is: where could someone grown up in the above areas and NEVER learn any English. It must have been a really isolated place. Oh yes, he started out as a cooper. Anyone any ideas?? <p>
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belmeade@sprint.ca

[Seosamh Mac Muirí]

: My grandfather, Thomas Henry (Tomas O'Einri) was brought up in the Elphin/Boyle area in the 1860/70s. He was R.C. and did not know any English until he went to England in his teens. My question is: where could someone grown up in the above areas and NEVER learn any English. It must have been a really isolated place. Oh yes, he started out as a cooper. Anyone any ideas?? <p>Tom, a Chara, <p>One may find it hard to realise that Ireland never had as many speakers of Irish as it had just twenty years before your father's time, i. e. the first half of the 19th. c. When linguicide - I think it's the best term - finally sets in, however, its progress is rapid. Under the Acht na dTithe Gaeltachta 1929 the following Electoral Divisions in Co. Ros Comáin were recognised by the Act as being within the limits of the Gaeltacht as set down by the Act : <p>Bealach an Doirín, Ceathrú Riabhach, Crannach, Críoch, Díseart, Cill Caradh and Teach Mac Chonaill. <p>Swaths of Sligo, Leitrim, Cavan, Limerick, Louth and Tipperary were similarly recognised as well as nearly all of the Gaeltacht as it is known to us at present. Thousands of speakers in Armagh, Tyrone/Derry and in Antrim, fanished. (I have tapes of some of them here beside me.) A major Gaeltacht area of some thousands of speakers in EAST Co. Galway has similarly disappeared - mar leá chúr na habhann - like the fading of foam on the river. <p>Quite a bit of Kilmovee Irish is in Heinrich Wagner's LASID = Linguistic Atlas of Ireland which you don't want to buy or carry around for too long. A tiny piece in phonetic script from Ballyfarnon appears in T. Ó Máille's 'Urlabhraíocht' 1927. <p>One person of your fathers era and area was An tAthair Tomás Ó Ceallaigh, Professor of Education in UCG who died 1924. Both a composer and collector, a book of some of the songs 'Ceol na n-oileán' which he had collected in Conamara was republished in 1990 by Cló Iar-Chonnacht, William Mahon of Harvard the editor. Is leabhar Gaeilge é/It's in Irish. <p>Books in English touching on the matter of the language would be 'The Great Silence' by Seán de Fréine, Mercier Press 1978; and 'The Irish Language' by Máirtín Ó Murchú. 'A Dialect of North Roscommon' by one of your own name, An tOllamh P. L. Henry is also a must for you, but it is one that you will only come upon in the reference section of your library or through a loan. <p>While we may lament what has gone during the last century and a half in the east to west wave of anglicisation, let us not forget that the last twenty eight years has witnessed another wave from the same direction, coming from city to province and to many towns. The Gaelscoil system of all-Irish education must have an eventual socio-linguistic payoff. There are probably less hang-ups and less guilt about not having Irish nowadays. That had to happen before anything positive could happen. Check out 'Gaeilge ar an Ghréasán' and delve into the various worlds of Irish out there. Just do a search on 'Gaeilge' and bang on anything that comes up. Check out the Gaelscoileanna site and take a look at the graph. Níl aon rian den 'chrúib is béal' ar Ghaeilg na linne seo! Irish of these times shows no signs of F&M! <p>In conclusion one may say that if north Ros Comáin was 'isolated' in your father's time, so was an awful lot of the rest of Ireland. <br>The language shift in Ireland of that time is remarkable by any standards, in a world spectrum. Historians seem to try to account for the economic collapse - a display of some genocidal tendancies - and yet seem to be blind to the demise, within one a half generations, of the consciousness which makes a people something unto themselves - a language which carries the memory of their entirety before them. When a language goes, it is not just a sound system with grammatical accompaniment that we miss. It is what is carried within the language, a system of conscious and subconscious thought. A subjectivity and a unique view of the world. The modern Gaeltacht we ought to view in this light of survival and continuation of an unbroken link. <p>Go n-éirí leat - Best wishes <p><p><br>

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Seosamh.macmuiri@ul.ie

[Maria Park]

Seosamh:<p>Goodness, I just want to say thank you to you for sharing your vast information. I am just starting to research the Irish connection in my family. A wealth of knowledge such as yours and so freely shared is truly a gift to those of us Americans so far isolated from our Heritage. Thank you and know that what you are doing is greatly appreciated. Maria L. Park<p>: : My grandfather, Thomas Henry (Tomas O'Einri) was brought up in the Elphin/Boyle area in the 1860/70s. He was R.C. and did not know any English until he went to England in his teens. My question is: where could someone grown up in the above areas and NEVER learn any English. It must have been a really isolated place. Oh yes, he started out as a cooper. Anyone any ideas?? <p>: Tom, a Chara, <p>: One may find it hard to realise that Ireland never had as many speakers of Irish as it had just twenty years before your father's time, i. e. the first half of the 19th. c. When linguicide - I think it's the best term - finally sets in, however, its progress is rapid. Under the Acht na dTithe Gaeltachta 1929 the following Electoral Divisions in Co. Ros Comáin were recognised by the Act as being within the limits of the Gaeltacht as set down by the Act : <p>: Bealach an Doirín, Ceathrú Riabhach, Crannach, Críoch, Díseart, Cill Caradh and Teach Mac Chonaill. <p>: Swaths of Sligo, Leitrim, Cavan, Limerick, Louth and Tipperary were similarly recognised as well as nearly all of the Gaeltacht as it is known to us at present. Thousands of speakers in Armagh, Tyrone/Derry and in Antrim, fanished. (I have tapes of some of them here beside me.) A major Gaeltacht area of some thousands of speakers in EAST Co. Galway has similarly disappeared - mar leá chúr na habhann - like the fading of foam on the river. <p>: Quite a bit of Kilmovee Irish is in Heinrich Wagner's LASID = Linguistic Atlas of Ireland which you don't want to buy or carry around for too long. A tiny piece in phonetic script from Ballyfarnon appears in T. Ó Máille's 'Urlabhraíocht' 1927. <p>: One person of your fathers era and area was An tAthair Tomás Ó Ceallaigh, Professor of Education in UCG who died 1924. Both a composer and collector, a book of some of the songs 'Ceol na n-oileán' which he had collected in Conamara was republished in 1990 by Cló Iar-Chonnacht, William Mahon of Harvard the editor. Is leabhar Gaeilge é/It's in Irish. <p>: Books in English touching on the matter of the language would be 'The Great Silence' by Seán de Fréine, Mercier Press 1978; and 'The Irish Language' by Máirtín Ó Murchú. 'A Dialect of North Roscommon' by one of your own name, An tOllamh P. L. Henry is also a must for you, but it is one that you will only come upon in the reference section of your library or through a loan. <p>: While we may lament what has gone during the last century and a half in the east to west wave of anglicisation, let us not forget that the last twenty eight years has witnessed another wave from the same direction, coming from city to province and to many towns. The Gaelscoil system of all-Irish education must have an eventual socio-linguistic payoff. There are probably less hang-ups and less guilt about not having Irish nowadays. That had to happen before anything positive could happen. Check out 'Gaeilge ar an Ghréasán' and delve into the various worlds of Irish out there. Just do a search on 'Gaeilge' and bang on anything that comes up. Check out the Gaelscoileanna site and take a look at the graph. Níl aon rian den 'chrúib is béal' ar Ghaeilg na linne seo! Irish of these times shows no signs of F&M! <p>: In conclusion one may say that if north Ros Comáin was 'isolated' in your father's time, so was an awful lot of the rest of Ireland. <br>: The language shift in Ireland of that time is remarkable by any standards, in a world spectrum. Historians seem to try to account for the economic collapse - a display of some genocidal tendancies - and yet seem to be blind to the demise, within one a half generations, of the consciousness which makes a people something unto themselves - a language which carries the memory of their entirety before them. When a language goes, it is not just a sound system with grammatical accompaniment that we miss. It is what is carried within the language, a system of conscious and subconscious thought. A subjectivity and a unique view of the world. The modern Gaeltacht we ought to view in this light of survival and continuation of an unbroken link. <p>: Go n-éirí leat - Best wishes <p><p>
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mparkathome@yahoo.com

[Seosamh Mac Muirí]

Go raibh maith agat Maria, Thank you. Checking out a new Irish Language site, www.Beo.ie which went online today, I dropped in here to find your kind words. (I didn't realise that I had written at such length until I looked back on it today.) <p>This site being free to the access of one and all, one doesn't begrudge making an effort. Is mór an gar é - It's very worthwhile. Go raibh maith agaibhse go léir a rinne obair an tsuímh seo : I also must thank the people who put so much effort into this site. Ba oscailt súile dom an chéad lá a bhuail mise mé féin isteach anseo - The first day that I myself wandered into it, I was greatly and pleasantly surprised by the enormous content. <p>Go n-éirí an taighde leat Maria - Good luck with your research. <p>S.<p><br>: Seosamh:<p>: Goodness, I just want to say thank you to you for sharing your vast information. I am just starting to research the Irish connection in my family. A wealth of knowledge such as yours and so freely shared is truly a gift to those of us Americans so far isolated from our Heritage. Thank you and know that what you are doing is greatly appreciated. Maria L. Park<p>: : : My grandfather, Thomas Henry (Tomas O'Einri) was brought up in the Elphin/Boyle area in the 1860/70s. He was R.C. and did not know any English until he went to England in his teens. My question is: where could someone grown up in the above areas and NEVER learn any English. It must have been a really isolated place. Oh yes, he started out as a cooper. Anyone any ideas?? <p>: : Tom, a Chara, <p>: : One may find it hard to realise that Ireland never had as many speakers of Irish as it had just twenty years before your father's time, i. e. the first half of the 19th. c. When linguicide - I think it's the best term - finally sets in, however, its progress is rapid. Under the Acht na dTithe Gaeltachta 1929 the following Electoral Divisions in Co. Ros Comáin were recognised by the Act as being within the limits of the Gaeltacht as set down by the Act : <p>: : Bealach an Doirín, Ceathrú Riabhach, Crannach, Críoch, Díseart, Cill Caradh and Teach Mac Chonaill. <p>: : Swaths of Sligo, Leitrim, Cavan, Limerick, Louth and Tipperary were similarly recognised as well as nearly all of the Gaeltacht as it is known to us at present. Thousands of speakers in Armagh, Tyrone/Derry and in Antrim, fanished. (I have tapes of some of them here beside me.) A major Gaeltacht area of some thousands of speakers in EAST Co. Galway has similarly disappeared - mar leá chúr na habhann - like the fading of foam on the river. <p>: : Quite a bit of Kilmovee Irish is in Heinrich Wagner's LASID = Linguistic Atlas of Ireland which you don't want to buy or carry around for too long. A tiny piece in phonetic script from Ballyfarnon appears in T. Ó Máille's 'Urlabhraíocht' 1927. <p>: : One person of your fathers era and area was An tAthair Tomás Ó Ceallaigh, Professor of Education in UCG who died 1924. Both a composer and collector, a book of some of the songs 'Ceol na n-oileán' which he had collected in Conamara was republished in 1990 by Cló Iar-Chonnacht, William Mahon of Harvard the editor. Is leabhar Gaeilge é/It's in Irish. <p>: : Books in English touching on the matter of the language would be 'The Great Silence' by Seán de Fréine, Mercier Press 1978; and 'The Irish Language' by Máirtín Ó Murchú. 'A Dialect of North Roscommon' by one of your own name, An tOllamh P. L. Henry is also a must for you, but it is one that you will only come upon in the reference section of your library or through a loan. <p>: : While we may lament what has gone during the last century and a half in the east to west wave of anglicisation, let us not forget that the last twenty eight years has witnessed another wave from the same direction, coming from city to province and to many towns. The Gaelscoil system of all-Irish education must have an eventual socio-linguistic payoff. There are probably less hang-ups and less guilt about not having Irish nowadays. That had to happen before anything positive could happen. Check out 'Gaeilge ar an Ghréasán' and delve into the various worlds of Irish out there. Just do a search on 'Gaeilge' and bang on anything that comes up. Check out the Gaelscoileanna site and take a look at the graph. Níl aon rian den 'chrúib is béal' ar Ghaeilg na linne seo! Irish of these times shows no signs of F&M! <p>: : In conclusion one may say that if north Ros Comáin was 'isolated' in your father's time, so was an awful lot of the rest of Ireland. <br>: : The language shift in Ireland of that time is remarkable by any standards, in a world spectrum. Historians seem to try to account for the economic collapse - a display of some genocidal tendancies - and yet seem to be blind to the demise, within one a half generations, of the consciousness which makes a people something unto themselves - a language which carries the memory of their entirety before them. When a language goes, it is not just a sound system with grammatical accompaniment that we miss. It is what is carried within the language, a system of conscious and subconscious thought. A subjectivity and a unique view of the world. The modern Gaeltacht we ought to view in this light of survival and continuation of an unbroken link. <p>: : Go n-éirí leat - Best wishes <p>
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Seosamh.macmuiri@ul.ie

[Seamus MacConcharraige]

"Isolated sa Ghaeltacht" Caithfidh muid cuimhneamh chomh maith go rabh na ceangail ni ba mho leis an Spainn agus an Fhrainc na le Sasana. Mar sin de thainig an Fhrincis agus an Spainnis cuchu ni ba gaiste na an Sacsbhearla. Ni Eireannach go Gaeilge Adh mor Seamus<p> : Go raibh maith agat Maria, Thank you. Checking out a new Irish Language site, www.Beo.ie which went online today, I dropped in here to find your kind words. (I didn't realise that I had written at such length until I looked back on it today.) <p>: This site being free to the access of one and all, one doesn't begrudge making an effort. Is mór an gar é - It's very worthwhile. Go raibh maith agaibhse go léir a rinne obair an tsuímh seo : I also must thank the people who put so much effort into this site. Ba oscailt súile dom an chéad lá a bhuail mise mé féin isteach anseo - The first day that I myself wandered into it, I was greatly and pleasantly surprised by the enormous content. <p>: Go n-éirí an taighde leat Maria - Good luck with your research. <p>: S.<p>: <br>: : Seosamh:<p>: : Goodness, I just want to say thank you to you for sharing your vast information. I am just starting to research the Irish connection in my family. A wealth of knowledge such as yours and so freely shared is truly a gift to those of us Americans so far isolated from our Heritage. Thank you and know that what you are doing is greatly appreciated. Maria L. Park<p>: : : : My grandfather, Thomas Henry (Tomas O'Einri) was brought up in the Elphin/Boyle area in the 1860/70s. He was R.C. and did not know any English until he went to England in his teens. My question is: where could someone grown up in the above areas and NEVER learn any English. It must have been a really isolated place. Oh yes, he started out as a cooper. Anyone any ideas?? <p>: : : Tom, a Chara, <p>: : : One may find it hard to realise that Ireland never had as many speakers of Irish as it had just twenty years before your father's time, i. e. the first half of the 19th. c. When linguicide - I think it's the best term - finally sets in, however, its progress is rapid. Under the Acht na dTithe Gaeltachta 1929 the following Electoral Divisions in Co. Ros Comáin were recognised by the Act as being within the limits of the Gaeltacht as set down by the Act : <p>: : : Bealach an Doirín, Ceathrú Riabhach, Crannach, Críoch, Díseart, Cill Caradh and Teach Mac Chonaill. <p>: : : Swaths of Sligo, Leitrim, Cavan, Limerick, Louth and Tipperary were similarly recognised as well as nearly all of the Gaeltacht as it is known to us at present. Thousands of speakers in Armagh, Tyrone/Derry and in Antrim, fanished. (I have tapes of some of them here beside me.) A major Gaeltacht area of some thousands of speakers in EAST Co. Galway has similarly disappeared - mar leá chúr na habhann - like the fading of foam on the river. <p>: : : Quite a bit of Kilmovee Irish is in Heinrich Wagner's LASID = Linguistic Atlas of Ireland which you don't want to buy or carry around for too long. A tiny piece in phonetic script from Ballyfarnon appears in T. Ó Máille's 'Urlabhraíocht' 1927. <p>: : : One person of your fathers era and area was An tAthair Tomás Ó Ceallaigh, Professor of Education in UCG who died 1924. Both a composer and collector, a book of some of the songs 'Ceol na n-oileán' which he had collected in Conamara was republished in 1990 by Cló Iar-Chonnacht, William Mahon of Harvard the editor. Is leabhar Gaeilge é/It's in Irish. <p>: : : Books in English touching on the matter of the language would be 'The Great Silence' by Seán de Fréine, Mercier Press 1978; and 'The Irish Language' by Máirtín Ó Murchú. 'A Dialect of North Roscommon' by one of your own name, An tOllamh P. L. Henry is also a must for you, but it is one that you will only come upon in the reference section of your library or through a loan. <p>: : : While we may lament what has gone during the last century and a half in the east to west wave of anglicisation, let us not forget that the last twenty eight years has witnessed another wave from the same direction, coming from city to province and to many towns. The Gaelscoil system of all-Irish education must have an eventual socio-linguistic payoff. There are probably less hang-ups and less guilt about not having Irish nowadays. That had to happen before anything positive could happen. Check out 'Gaeilge ar an Ghréasán' and delve into the various worlds of Irish out there. Just do a search on 'Gaeilge' and bang on anything that comes up. Check out the Gaelscoileanna site and take a look at the graph. Níl aon rian den 'chrúib is béal' ar Ghaeilg na linne seo! Irish of these times shows no signs of F&M! <p>: : : In conclusion one may say that if north Ros Comáin was 'isolated' in your father's time, so was an awful lot of the rest of Ireland. <br>: : : The language shift in Ireland of that time is remarkable by any standards, in a world spectrum. Historians seem to try to account for the economic collapse - a display of some genocidal tendancies - and yet seem to be blind to the demise, within one a half generations, of the consciousness which makes a people something unto themselves - a language which carries the memory of their entirety before them. When a language goes, it is not just a sound system with grammatical accompaniment that we miss. It is what is carried within the language, a system of conscious and subconscious thought. A subjectivity and a unique view of the world. The modern Gaeltacht we ought to view in this light of survival and continuation of an unbroken link. <p>: : : Go n-éirí leat - Best wishes <p>
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ancuglas@sprint.ca